What scares you the most is the possibility of GC and TC acting together but without being under the control of political parties.

Thank you for making that so obvious.

I also feel the need to thank you for asking TC to be brave “in convincing their leaders” while THEY live with the turkish troops amongst them.

Really… why do you seem so bothered by the thought that some of us may choose to do things together in that manner?

Why do you care anyway?

If we do these things as a way of supporting a BBF that “the people will reject”, then what is there to be afraid of?

The XXXXX XXXX

The XXXXX Plan

The Annan XXXX

Nessie (the Loch Ness Monster)

The abominable Snowman…

Darth Vader
…
…
The Boogey Man
…
…
and… ohhh…. Marilyn Manson!

I think I sh### my pants with that last one.

If you are using such words for someone who is proposing BBF with political equality, Turkish guarantees, and more than 50,000 settlers, I hate to think what words you are using for those (and they are probably half the population) who are not accepting ANY of the above!

It seems to me that anyone who rejects the Annan plan is your enemy.. that’s 76% of GCs!!.. you just ignore their will and expect and demand that they change their mind.. nice one

Keep going like this – and if you ever get to “epanenosi”.. whistle!

PS: Yes, Turkey calls the shots but TCs who truly want epanenosi and reject taking loot at the expense of GCs should come out and say it – maybe that will show to the world what’s really going on – until then, TCs and Turkey are the same as far as I am concerned

You’ve managed to make demands that favor the GCs but on the other hand renounced all responsibility on the GC side by handing it over to the TCs. In other words this is what I want, now you fix it. Is that how you imagine the intercommunal interaction you mention? Do we want compatriots or servants? That is the most immature position I have ever come across.

On another note, anyone in the political scene who poses obstacles to finding common grounds where both sides feel the least possible unfair treatment, is to be openly blamed, whether Greek or Turkish. I don’t think that anyone here is deliberately ignoring the opposing forces on one side when blaming the ones on the other.

I share this expereince with you. My heart was racing. After that came a long debate on how we cook lentils – almost the same way. Then yaprak dolma – the same way. Then came komshu. And then kardesh.

Will it be the same on political level?

I hope so.

You fully agree?

I seriously doubt you even understand.

First of all, you are free to “…believe it is not constructive to ‘blame’ the various GC parties…”

But the very basis of my thinking started exactly with the idea that the politicians are THE problem. On “our side”, it’s the same politicians that still tried to find ways to achieve “Enosis” at day one 1960… Ask the TC participants in this blog for “their side’s politicians”.

Then you go on with “…or people who reject … ”
“Turkish and TC demands…”
“…Painful compromise…”

Even in an article like this… you had to throw in the “scare words”, didn’t you?

The XXXXX XXXX

The XXXXX Plan

The Annan XXXX

Nessie (the Loch Ness Monster)

The abominable Snowman…

Darth Vader
…
…
……you forgot the scariest of them all
…
…
…
Nellie the Elephant!

***

And then… “If you manage to convince your leaders…”

Oh, but I thought that TC were living in an entity controlled by Turkey? Wasn’t that your -clearly stated -position here?

How can you ask them to convince leaders which you consider puppets? I guess you think that they -like our own -are not to be blamed about the impasse. Oh, wait… you already blamed them for having “…demands that prevent us from reaching a solution”. Oh wel…

Sceptic, if what I am talking about (Interaction Cores) ever becomes a reality… you will be stading outside those places… along with most of our politicians… and with all the other hate-mongers in protest … for actions that “violate legitimacy” and “solidify the results of the invasion”.

That said, I believe it is not constructive to “blame” the various GC parties or people who reject Annan-type solutions while ignoring the substantial and very real obstacles created by Turkish and TC demands that prevent us from reaching a solution.

TCs who want a solution asap should demand from their leadership to be more reasonable and more flexible in the negotiations and make clear that they are not seeking to keep “loot” at the expense of their GC compatriots.

TC demands that go well beyong the GCs’ ultimate sacrifice of the BBF is really what is preventing a solution from being found. Examples include violating GC’s individual property rigths, demanding 29% of land and 55% of coastline for the 18% of the population who owns only 12.3% of land, demanding Turkish presidency for a number of years in each term (as opposed to Vice-Presidency etc).

I believe that the majority of GCs can accept a painful compromise under which TCs have their own component state in a BBF with political equality (as defined in UNSC resolutions), even under Turkish guarantees (for just that state) and even if 50,000 or even a few more settlers stay.

If you manage to convince your leaders to drop the land they want to something closer to your ownership, say 20-22%, respect individual property rights, agree to cast-iron implementation and ongoing guarantees (incl returning the land to the UN before recognition and UNSC Ch 7 resolution), and permanent GC P and TC VP, then you will have your solution.

Until then, there will be no solution, simply because, for the majority of GCs, the status quo is better than a solution that does not satisfy the above – always in my humble opinion. I believe strongly that the above is the absolute minimum GCs will accept at referendum, and will insist on it until Turkey is ready to accept it too (through blocking Turkey’s EU process and European courts e.g. Orams).

The future is in your hands!

Don’t worry, even in Greek sounds the same

As much as I am, and want to be optimistic and positive, I find it very difficult to see a real way out.
I know that even if the attempt fails, things will never be the same again. In a way we will have a de facto solution, which is going to be the worst scenario for all of us.
It will still be a “solution” but one born out of failure, not a choice of hope and positive power.

At the crossroads?

More like “at the pits” really.

“Will we let the apathy and hopelessness, fear and insecurity subsume us and settle for a problem-ridden status quo?”

I cannot speak on your behalf but I can tell you how it feels for me… here, in the “south”.

You see, for me… the above description relates to the effects of our mistakes, not their cause.

We shouldn’t have left this (the solution) to our “leaders”, we should have attempted -at least -to make “reunification” a matter of practical ways.

In other words, WE -the civilians – should have created ways and places of living together, working together, etc. I call them “Interaction Cores”.

Not just one-day, one-hour gatherings and demonstrations or seminars but… real situations of everyday living where we would be “forced” to be together and examine possible problems and possible solutions.

And not just for the few, like the workers in constructions… but specificaly designed for the large lower-middle and middle-middle class masses, that is, that part of the population which always has been vulnerable with regards to hatred, fear and scepticism.

Like… self-organised , codetermined businesses / enterprises …. from bookshops to factories, from radio-stations to cafes / restaurants…

Difficult? Sure.

An Utopia?

Only if it remains an idea, something that you cannot produce and display for all to see.

WE should have created common interests instead of waiting for our politicians to construct them.

We could have seeked protection for such actions in the European Union.

Instead we placed all our money on the politicians.

A bloody dead horse.

First of all let me say that it is great to share these sentiments and thoughts with you here. I am glad to hear that we share the same thoughts and ideals for Cyprus.

Raftis, not sure if AKEL can get rid of EDEK and DIKO, I understand that AKEL feels constrained a lot with the political atmosphere in the South, especially with the difficult coalition partners. The last time what really frustrated T/C (at least the ones on the Left) was AKEL’s position of saying no to cement a yes. By the way I don’t think Annan Plan was fantastic and to an extent understand why G/C rejected the plan, yet there is the risk of losing a lot if you can not bring yourself to compromise. Even if AKEL strongly supports the settlement that is significant in itself. And what about DISI? I read in the paper that they are changing their position and not supporting AKEL any further? Is there any truth in this?

Couldn’t agree more dear Gregoris. Indeed the idea of life long partition and even worse being governed by some isolationist, nationalist government is my biggest nightmare. This place was quite claustrophobic before the borders opened, I fear we will go back to that state again if things fail this time.

About the question you raised dear Psychia:
So are we, who have decided so, realistic individuals or a bunch of romantics?

Antonio Gramsci has a saying which I love. He called for “pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will”: even though, using our intellectual faculties we conceive that a settlement is difficult and we as the inhabitants of the island do not have much of a say in our future, we still need to hold on to the optimism of the will. Plus, if you think of the context with Turkey hopelessly wanting to join the EU and the US supporting this, I think there is no hindrance to a settlement coming from the external actors this time. I think we should not underestimate the power of the masses, they are the ones that will accept or reject a settlement. It’s all a matter of getting mobilized. This is nothing less than a hegemony war, the question that needs to be asked is how do we win over those sections of the society which are against a settlement and how do we win over the already converted, once again?

The feeling of practical entrapment is understandably far more intense in the north than in the south, but in any case, Cypriots on both sides have acted similarly to each other (even though separated) as do all human beings when feeling threatened identity- or otherwise: by going nationalistic or ballistic.

Let’s say then, that I, as many others like me, have chosen: I want to reserve the hope for a common future and despite all its potential problems fight to reunite our country (since I discovered that you look human and… much like me). Of course a bit of sensitization among the masses will be a blessing (but then we’ll have to stop bickering about every single word in the plan), but even if that happens, in all honesty, to which extent can we influence the outcome?

Political games and agendas have ruined many, many people’s good will and dedication for goals as sacred as this one, higher goals. So are we, who have decided so, realistic individuals or a bunch of romantics?